LIMA, OHIO - Ohio is one of 19 battleground states for this year’s presidential election – a state so important to the president's re-election efforts that after barnstorming through there Saturday he'll return again Wednesday – his final stop before heading to New York to accept the GOP nomination for president. In Lima, Ohio, President Bush held what has become a staple of his campaign - a question and answer session with invited supporters called: "Ask President Bush." “Today” host Matt Lauer joined him after that event to talk about why he thinks stops like these are a good way for voters to get to know him.
President George W. Bush: “I mean they see me, but they see me like in a 10 second sound bite at times. You know they've seen me deal with crisis. They’ve seen me weep. They’ve seen me laugh and I think it's important for me to be able to share my experiences with them — and this is a way to do so. I mean I’ve talked about some personal moments.”
Matt Lauer: “Right.”
President Bush: “I’ve talked about my family and it's just a different format that is not quite as structured as a typical campaign rally.”
The president was heading to his next stop – a rally outside Toledo – and he invited me to join him on his bus for part of the ride.
Lauer: “Here in Ohio, you won this state by about 165,000 votes in the year 2000. In the last three years they've lost about 200,000 jobs in this state. How do you look at those people who may be out of work and say, ‘rehire me?’”
President Bush: “Well, that's a great question and the answer is that, here's my plan to move us forward. I remind them about what we've been through. We’ve been through a recession. We’ve been through an attack. The September 11 attacks hurt our economy.
"We’ve been through corporate scandals. I’ve said we dealt with all that and here's the plan to keep the economy growing – it's an energy policy, it's a health care policy, it's tort reform, it's keeping taxes low.”
Lauer: “So you think if you look out the window here, you know I don't know if you can see because…”
President Bush: “I think I’m gonna…”
Lauer: “…of the rain.”
President Bush: “…win Ohio.”
Lauer: “You think?”
President Bush: “I do.”
Lauer: “You think you do? They’re struggling in a lot of places.”
President Bush: “Well, some places they are and some places the economy's growing.”
Lauer: “So you think they will answer that famous question are you better off today than you were four years ago in the affirmative?”
President Bush: “I think over 50 percent will.”
Lauer: “Are you disappointed by the job numbers here? I mean, in your meeting just now, you talked about some success stories: small businesses adding 30 and 10 jobs here and there. But overall in terms of the predicted number of jobs that were supposed to be created by your tax cuts, you haven't gotten there.”
President Bush: “Well we're up to about a million-five and this month … will be added in –- it's progress. I mean, we're headed in the right direction. That’s the point I keep making and if you raise the taxes on the people, it will cause us to go in the wrong direction. I've laid out a plan that says, ‘Here's how we keep jobs in America.’ And it's a six point plan, one that is, I think, based upon common sense and good sound principle that is important for job creators. And what the people want to know is, ‘do you have a plan?’”
Lauer: “You talk about winning the war on terror. You talked about being stable in terms of an economy. John Kerry says the same things. And so …”
President Bush: “That's what elections are all about.”
Lauer: “Alright. So what is the major difference between you and Sen. Kerry other than that you're a Republican and he's a Democrat?”
President Bush: “Well, I think there's a philosophical difference, which is that if you look at my policies they're all aimed at empowering people to make their own decisions. But people are going to be able to make up their mind. There’ll be a lot of rhetoric between now and election day and they can choose who they're comfortable with.”
Lauer: “Let me ask you about deficits –- this year $445 billion. That’s ballpark? You think that's pretty good?”
President Bush: “Yeah. I do. I do.”
Lauer: “Alright –- and by the way less than projected –- at that time we were projecting…”
President Bush: “Five.”
Lauer: “Five-hundred and fifty.”
President Bush: “Yeah, something like that.”
Lauer: “Does the deficit matter?”
President Bush: “Well, I think it does in the long run. I really do. And I think it's very important for those of us running for office to explain how we're going to deal with the deficit. I’ve laid out a specific plan that shows the deficit being reduced by half in five years. It's going to require fiscal sanity in Washington, D.C.”
Lauer: “If the deficit does not come down, if you can't pay it down in half by 2008, will you raise taxes?”
President Bush: “It's going to come down in half. That’s the goal. I mean I …”
Lauer: “If it doesn't?”
President Bush: “There's no need to answer a hypothetical, cause it is going to. That’s what we've got in place and that's what we've got in mind. Raising taxes now would be a disaster.”
Lauer: “Have you ever thought, President Bush, about what the first four years of your presidency might have been like were it not for 9/11?”
President Bush: “No, I haven't because I haven't had that luxury. Well, I haven't had the luxury because it was defined by 9/11. You know every day, as I tell the people, every day I wake up thinking about how better to protect America. It’s just the nature of the presidency right now--one of those moments in history that is a defining moment for all of us. I really haven't sat down and had that luxury of thinking what it'd be like.”
Lauer: “You said to me a second ago, one of the things you'll lay out in your vision for the next four years is how to go about winning the war on terror. That phrase strikes me a little bit. Do you really think we can win this war on terror in the next four years?”
President Bush: “I have never said we can win it in four years.”
Lauer: “So I’m just saying can we win it? Do you see that?”
President Bush: “I don't think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world –- let's put it that way. I have a two pronged strategy. On the one hand is to find them before they hurt us, and that's necessary. I’m telling you it's necessary. The country must never yield, must never show weakness [and] must continue to lead. To find al-Qaida affiliates who are hiding around the world and … harm us and bring ‘em to justice –- we're doing a good job of it. I mean we are dismantling the al-Qaidaas we knew it. The long-term strategy is to spread freedom and liberty, and that's really kind of an interesting debate. You know there's some who say well, ‘You know certain people can't self govern and accept, you know, a former democracy.’ I just strongly disagree with that. I believe that democracy can take hold in parts of the world that are now non-democratic and I think it's necessary in order to defeat the ideologies of hate. History has shown that it can work, that spreading liberty does work. After all, Japan is our close ally and my dad fought against the Japanese. Prime Minister Koizumi, is one of the closest collaborators I have in working to make the world a more peaceful place.”
Lauer: “Your daughters are how old now?”
President Bush: “Twenty-two.”
Lauer: “Twenty-two years old. They’re approaching the age, President Bush, [when] they're going to have their own children. And when their kids are teenagers are they going to those kids – your grandchildren – be reading about al-Qaida in the newspaper every day?”
President Bush: “I know if steadfast, strong and resolute — and I say those words very seriously — it's less likely that your kids are going to live under the threat of al-Qaida for a long period of time. I can't tell you. I don't have any … definite end. But I tell you this, when we succeed in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's the beginning of the end for these extremists. Because freedom is going to have a powerful influence to make sure your kids can grow up in a peaceful world. If we believe, for example, that you can't win, and the alternative is to retreat … I think that would be a disaster for your children. I'll tell you why. If al-Qaida and their ideologues were able to secure a nuclear arsenal, then your children would grow up under the threat of nuclear blackmail. I think you would look back and say, ‘Why did George Bush not hold the line?’ We cannot show weakness in this world today, because the enemy will exploit that weakness. It will embolden them and make the world a more dangerous place.”
Lauer: “Think about the last three years if you will. I mean the day after 9/11, there was never a greater outpouring of support and compassion for the United States than in those days. I mean in Tehran they held candlelight vigils there, the flags were at half-staff in Turkey, in France, in Germany – gatherings in the street. Here we are three years later. And in, as I mentioned, parts of the Arab world, polls show we have never been more hated. We’ve separated ourselves from traditional allies.”
President Bush: “Actually that's not a necessarily a true statement. America has unfortunately throughout our history of the Middle East and elsewhere, there have been periods where we have been disliked and periods when we've been liked depending upon the decisions made by the country.”
Lauer: “But if you look in places like Pakistan and Jordan and they ask the people there, ‘Do you support suicide attacks against Americans or Western interests,’ something like 60 or 70 percent of the people in those countries say, ‘Yes, we support it.’”
President Bush: “Yeah, except for the fact that their leadership in Pakistan is strongly on the hunt for al-Qaida and he is a popular figure. President Musharraf is a strong ally in this war on terror.”
Lauer: “But you can't dispute the fact that there is enormous growing discontent and I want to use the word hatred and if you think it's too strong we can …”
President Bush: “Well maybe…”
Lauer: “We can argue that.”
President Bush: “Maybe it is. But I will tell you, when they see a freer Afghanistan emerge and they see a free Iraq emerge, they will understand why we made the decisions we made.”
Lauer: “All I’m asking is how did we go from this period of great compassion and support, three years later and we've got this issue that we're talking about?”
President Bush: “I guess because I made some hard decisions. And we've made a decision on Saddam Hussein to remove him from power. Going into Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban created some unpopularity inside…”
Lauer: “But you…”
President Bush: “… of Pakistan.”
Lauer: “…had great support in Afghanistan.”
President Bush: “Now, let me finish for a second. Not in Pakistan. You mentioned Pakistan. It was an unpopular move in Pakistan as you might recall. And yet it was the right thing to do. When I’m making my calculations and I say to the Taliban, ‘You know cough up al-Qaida or face serious consequences,’ I’m not doing a focus group in Pakistan, Matt. I made decisions on what I think is best for this country and yet the decision to remove the Taliban in Afghanistan was unpopular in Pakistan at the time. And other places it wasn't so popular either I might add … same in Iraq, there’s no question.”
Lauer: “Iraq was the turning point – wasn't it, really?”
President Bush: “Well, it depends on what country you're talking to. But yes, the decision in Iraq was a hard decision. There's no doubt in my mind we made the right decision and there's no doubt in my mind the world is better off with Saddam Hussein in a prison cell. When Iraq emerges a free society, the people will see the wisdom of the decision we made.”
LIMA, OHIO - Before he headed to the Republican National Convention in New York City, President George W. Bush sat down for an extensive interview with “Today” host Matt Lauer. In this second excerpt from their talk, President Bush addressed critical issues of foreign policy, including the situation in Iraq, when U.S. troops would come home and the nuclear threat posed by Iran. He talked about the costs of the Iraq war — both financial and human. With nearly 1000 troops killed and more than 6,000 wounded, did he expect the costs to be so high?
President Bush: You know, Matt, it — I knew war was a — ugly — would have ugly consequences. And that's why war was the last resort for me. That's why I tried diplomacy first to deal with Saddam Hussein. And it's tough. It's hard. And it's really hard on the loved ones. I spend a lot of time consoling best as I possibly can loved ones. And so it's been an amazing experience talking to moms and dads and the wives and husbands of those who've lost their life. And it's hard.
Matt Lauer: People around the country who have loved ones in the service, they want to ask you a simple question. They want to say, "When are they coming home?"
President Bush: It's when they finish the job. And — it's a — and the job is a free and democratic Afghanistan and Iraq. We're allies in the war on terror. And we're getting closer. And we're not going to stay a day longer than necessary. We're more secure when those countries become free. This is a historic time — that we have an opportunity to change the world. Liberty transforms societies. And we're watching that happen right now.
Lauer: Are we safer because Saddam is no longer in power?
President Bush: I think we are. Yeah.
Lauer: Explain that to me. How?
President Bush: Well, because Saddam Hussein had terrorist ties. And he had the capacity at the minimum to make weapons of mass destruction. And he could've passed that capacity onto enemies.
Lauer: What about cost? When we first talked about going to war, a $50-$60 billion price tag was attached. We've spent $150 billion.
President Bush: That's just an interesting question. I mean what is the cost of the attacks on the World Trade Center? What's the cost of defending the homeland? And I said I would pay what is necessary to defend our country. And I think the Congress agreed by we had strong bipartisan support in funding the cost of this war. These were both Republicans and Democrats stepping up and saying, "We will spend what is necessary to defend us."
Lauer: I've heard people say at gatherings, dinner parties, whatever — they say, "You know what I'm missing? I'm missing that massive demonstration by the Iraqi people in Baghdad. I want to see a million people on the streets of Baghdad protesting against the insurgents saying, 'You're messing up our future.'"
President Bush: Yeah.
Lauer: "And supporting the Americans." And some Americans are saying, "If I'm going to pay for this, and my son or daughter or husband or wife is going to go there to fight there for this, why aren't they willing to stand up in the streets and say this is what they want?"
President Bush: There's a certain expectation that we're not going to hold the course. And that — not willing to risk the freedom —
Lauer: Wouldn't that protest make us hold the course?
President Bush: No. Let me finish for a minute. I'm — you know you asked me about the Iraqi people? And I said there's a certain expectation that we're not going to be true to our word? And therefore some are not willing to take a risk until they're certain a free society's coming, and the return of the tyrants have been denied forever? You know it's a very interesting question you asked. We're doing that in Afghanistan. And for about the first 15 months or 17 months in Afghanistan, there was uncertainty about whether or not a democracy would emerge. Today, over 10 million people have registered to vote. That's not exactly a million people coming out in the street, but 10 million people said, "We want to be free." And now Iraq is headed toward elections. And we'll see this political process unfold. And I think — I suspect you're going to find the Iraqi citizens are thrilled with the idea of being able to determine their own fate at the ballot box.
Lauer and the president continued their conversation at a farm in Columbus Grove, Ohio, where the “Today” host asked him about the comments of retiring congressman Doug Bereuter, a Republican from Nebraska who strongly supported the president's decision to go to war in Iraq but who has now taken a dramatic stand against it.
Lauer: He's written a letter to his constituents and he's basically said, “I'm leaving. I want to tell you where I feel now.” And he said this:
Based on intelligence relating to Saddam and weapons of mass destruction, quote, "I believe that launching a preemptive military action was not justified. As a result of that work, our country's reputation around the world has never been lower and our alliances are weakened."
President Bush: Yeah. I strongly disagree. I mean, we’ve got 30 nations involved in Iraq. And it's not easy work. But it's necessary work. And, you know, as I tell the crowds, we all thought we were going to find stockpiles. But I would have made the same decision knowing what I know today. Saddam had the capability of making weapons, and he could have passed that capability on to an enemy. And so —.
Lauer: Does it bother you that the guy is the vice chair of the House Intelligence Committee?
President Bush: No, it doesn't bother me at all that he made a statement like that. I can understand people not agreeing. I just disagree — strongly disagree. The world is better off with Saddam Hussein in a prison cell.
Lauer: I want to ask you about Iran.
President Bush: Sure.
Lauer: They have basically said recently that they can produce a nuclear bomb in about three years. They're saying this publicly. We know from 9/11 Commission report that they allowed certain al-Qaida operatives to pass through their country prior to the 9/11 attacks, including some of the hijackers, without having their passports stamped. We know they funded international terror organizations including Hezbollah.
President Bush: Hezbollah, right.
Lauer: And they've repressed their own people. So if the policy of pre-emption is to take out a country before they create an imminent threat to us, if they're saying these things and doing these things, why aren't they a great candidate for that?
President Bush: Matt, the military option is always the last option of a President, not the first. And we had tried diplomacy with Saddam Hussein. Like over a decade's worth of diplomacy. I mean I don't know how many resolutions were passed. But 17 resolutions, or some number of resolutions, that he just totally ignored. And we tried again to give him a chance to disarm peacefully. In Iran, we're just starting a diplomatic effort.
Lauer: Do you think that—
President Bush: In Iran—
Lauer: — diplomacy can work there where it didn't work in Iraq?
President Bush: Absolutely. I hope so. I hope so. I hope it works everywhere. I mean, the idea of committing troops into combat, you know, is a tough decision. You asked me, you know, basically what it's like to be the commander in chief. And know that people have died because of a decision I made. It's hard. It's hard for the loved ones. It's hard for the country. And so therefore the use of military is the last choice. And so now we've got a focused effort on Iran, trying to convince them to get rid of their nuclear ambitions.
Lauer: Under what circumstances could you envision having to conduct a military operation against them?
President Bush: Well, we hope we can solve it diplomatically. Let me put it to you that way: We've sanctioned them. I mean we — we've had a long policy of sanctions. But we can't sanction them anymore. But we can work with others to continue sending a message. We expect them to give up their nuclear ambitions.
Lauer: They were part of your axis of evil. Are they evil? Is Iran evil?
President Bush: Well I think a country that suppresses their people is not good. And they do. They're not listening to the demands of their people. And we're deeply concerned about a country, as you said, that, you know, is developing a nuclear weapon [and] that has supported terrorist groups. And we made our position very clear. And are working with others. This — that's what we always must do — is always try to work with others to solve a problem before it becomes acute.
Lauer: You said four years ago you wanted to be a uniter, not a divider. By your own admission, we're still a very divided country. So what can you say on Thursday night in your speech, and what can you do over these next four years, that can help bring this country together?
President Bush: Yeah. There's no question there is — you know that going to war is — is the visage. I mean, we've done some hard things. I've always said my job is to confront problems. Not to pass them on. Best thing I know to do is to continue to explain to people why the decisions I have made are going to make the world a more peaceful place.
© 2004 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5868209/
© 2004 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5866571/