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Transcripts - Group 2
Moderator: Rafia Khan '08
Scribe: Mary Tressider '06
Participants: Breanne, Katherine, Emily, Alison
Clip 1
Rafia: OK. It’s recording. My name is Rafia, I’m a sophomore, and I’m an econ and sociology major.
Mary: I’m Mary, and I’m gonna be the note taker, and I’m a sociology major, and an anthro major, and a I’m senior.
BREANNE: My name is Breanne, and I’m an environmental science major, and a, self-designed minor in development of Africa.
KATHERINE: I’m Katherine, I’m a first-year, and I’m not sure what I’m going to major in, but maybe biochem, bio.
ALISON: I’m Alison, and I’m majoring in bio.
EMILY: I’m Emily, and I’m majoring in bio.
Rafia: You guys, I wanted to start off the interview to talk about before you guys entered Mount Holyoke, if you knew about the science programs at Mount Holyoke and the traditions kind of tied to it? And please feel free to jump in.
BREANNE: Sorry, about the what program?
Rafia: About the sciences at Mou-…
BREANNE: Sciences at...
Rafia: Just--were you guys familiar with it, did you know that we have such extensive research programs, et cetera?
BREANNE: I knew that Mt Holyoke was, I mean I knew they were known for their sciences and women in science, but I didn’t really know much beyond that, I don’t think…
ALISON: Yeah, like I came on the tour here, and then, they had the big fancy new building, [I was like] oh this is nice…
[a few people saying “yeah”]
EMILY: Yeah, they had lots of publicity about the new building, how the sciences were integrated and stuff like that, it was very good…
Rafia: I was just wondering, in high school, did you guys take a lot of science classes? What were your experiences like in the labs beforehand, did you take AP bio…?
[a few “yeah” “mhm”s]
BREANNE: I took AP bio, yeah.
ALISON: Yeah.
BREANNE: And other sciences, too…
EMILY: Yeah.
ALISON: Yeah, I didn’t really have a chance to, so…[R: Oh, ok] …so I took general like chemistry and biochemistry, my first two years, after that I didn’t..
Rafia: So.
KATHERINE: I took AP bio, [R: Uh huh.] but I had a really bad teacher, so I didn’t really like bio that much in high school… that’s why I came here.
Rafia: Oh. …Let’s see, and then like, I guess coming in…to Bio 150? Did it kind of confirm your interests in biology, in the sciences?
BREANNE: I think so.
ALISON: I would say so, yeah.
Rafia: Do you think after taking the class it increased?
KATHERINE: Prob..ab..ly.
BREANNE: I actually didn’t take the class. I..replied back and said that I didn’t, [R: Ohh] I had dropped the class, but I took a different science class instead, so she said she still wanted me to come, so, I don’t know if you want me to answer that…
[a couple of people laughing]
Mary: I guess we would be curious to know what made you decide to switch to another class.
BREANNE: I switched because I felt like.. I looked at the curriculum of Bio 150 and it looked like a lot of repeat from like AP bio, and not necessarily like it would be simple or anything like that, by any means, but just that I was able to take Bio… 223, which is ecology, which is more my interest; I’m more interested in plant ecology. And so, I just switched straight to that instead of…doing it, I guess, yeah…
Rafia: Alright, I’m just going to ask you questions, what do you think the significance of like—‘cause Bio 150 does serve as like a distribution requirement, like, being in the lab—do you think that there is, like it’s a valuable experience to have it be a core requirement?
BREANNE: Having a lab science as a core requirement?
Rafia: Mhm.
BREANNE: I think it’s really important, yeah. A lot of people.. bitch about it, but I think it’s a great thing, I think that people need to have like the experiences of every different thing… I mean, we still have P.E. requirements, like that’s kind of dated, too, but it’s—I think it’s really important.
[Rafia starts to say something and stops “go ahead”. KATHERINE: “No, I agree.”]
Rafia: I was wondering if…did you guys feel the same way about labs in high school? Because I guess like, well, you didn’t take AP bio, but—
ALISON: You still had labs. Yeah.
Rafia: Yeah. Right. So. Ok, so just in general. Did you guys have any peers that did take a lab requirement and were kinda unhappy with their experience?
BREANNE: Here at Mt Holyoke?
[a few people say “yeah…”]
ALISON: Yeah, there’s a lot of people…It’s a pretty intense course for non-bio majors, I think, like I think a lot of people have a hard time because they’re not interested in the material at all and it’s a lot of material to memorize themselves. So.
BREANNE: I think they do better, like they started doing the first-year seminars, like Green World, and things like that. I think they need to not make those first-year seminars. I think they should open that to everyone, and [others: “Yeah”] have different like, like bio and basic bio, or chemistry, or whatever, but in specific fields like…ecology…or whatever it might be. You know, that one is all about plants, and plant structure. Like, making different ones so that non- bio majors can—maybe they’re interested in something, like one specific part like anatomy [As: “part”] or human physiology or—that they would be really interested in doing, and would actually do well in. I think students—I think you would see a great increase in students’ grades for people who are non-bio majors.
[Overlapping with previous statement]
BREANNE: Yeah. I think so.
EMILY: It’s interesting ‘cause like next semester they’re offering like a bio and chemistry combined Winter course. So I think that will help a lot of people, ‘cause like a lot of people like hate bio or chemistry, one or the other, but..
ALISON: And they go together so much.
EMILY: Yeah, exactly. So.
Clip 2
BREANNE: Yeah, and actually, Green World actually started out--it was open to everyone. I know, I applied [(at same time) EMILY: I applied…to get in, too], and Simone applied, but the waitlist—it got so huge that there was no room for first-years?
ALISON: Mmhm.
BREANNE: And then that’s when they made it a first-year seminar. Which is not… I don’t know, I don’t really understand that thinking, I guess, the mentality, but, and so, I don’t think that they’ve recognized yet that they need to…open up all those alternatives to.. to everyone. Not just first-years.
Rafia: Now, like being in the class, if you guys reflect back on your experience, was it overall, I mean, it was a difficult course, I mean.. I took it—did you guys enjoy it, did you have fun, during parts of it…?
KATHERINE: It was good, [EMILY and others laugh] I liked it…
ALISON: Yeah, I thought…the stuff… It was funny because they’re all really like into the stuff, like into their subject, so they’ll get really passionate about it [more laughs]. So, it just makes you really passionate it in a way, like ‘oh wow, this is cool…’ I don’t know.
EMILY: And it was X and Y that was cute, too.
[loud laughing]
KATHERINE: you mean X?
ALISON: Oh, yeah, yeah..
KATHERINE: I don’t know, my class felt really…like, there was a lot of stuff to study for, but it wasn’t really like in depth, it was just really wide. So I felt like I was studying like the entire book…but when you’re..
[others: “Right.” (giggling) “Yup.” (general agreement) “It was so..”]
KATHERINE: I mean, your idea about like—just, individual subjects that you can take, as intro bio, or whatever…Would be really nice.
Rafia: Yeah… so what (?), I mean, you mentioned your professors, do you think that they had a big role in (?)playing, like how well you did, and kinda just like.. confirming your interests? In science?
BREANNE: I think it depends a lot on the professor. [(Rafia:) Right.] And on your lab instructors, too. Because.. they need to be excited, and.. make it interesting, I mean, it’s kind of—I mean, it can be really boring, or it can be fascinating. And it depends a lot on the professor. And if, I mean, I don’t know, it seems like a lot of intro classes become boring after awhile because professors get burnt out on teaching the same class a million times, it’s really basic, and not in their.. interests necessarily.
EMILY: Right.
ALISON: Even if it’s new to all their students.
BREANNE: yeah, exactly, so-
Rafia: So having two professors…also
EMILY: I think that helps. Because I mean, it kinda wasn’t good if you didn’t like one or the other, but at least you got to switch halfway through. See like a different professor sorta thing.
Rafia: No, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. Let’s see. Now, you guys, so have you all..declared, basically?
BREANNE: Mhm
ALISON: Well, they’re first-years.
BREANNE: Yeah, we’re first-years.
[laughing]
BREANNE: Am I the only non-first-year?
EMILY: No. I’m—
BREANNE: Oh, no, you’re not. Oh, okay.
EMILY: Yeah.
ALISON: I’m a first-year. But I plan to declare bio as my major..
Rafia: Yeah. Ok, but it’s going to be something in science. Ok, so I guess like, from the first-year perspective, like, ha-is there a visible.. like culture to the sciences.. at Mt Holyoke? …That you guys have already seen? / (overlaps) As: What does that mean?
ALISON: I would say so, like especially with the premeds. Like the premed students? Because like, it’s like.. a huge line of people go from like, bio to chemistry, like daily, it’s like a daily pilgrimage, [lots of laughing] …No, like it’s quite ..like following like the line, and there’s always this little buzz about science like going on. Like I feel like that…
BREANNE: That’s funny.
Rafia: And so like, being like sophomores and juniors, do-can you guys like confirm that, like the whole feeling.. Kendade and…
EMILY: Yeah, I think a lot of science majors, yeah.
BREANNE: yeah, I think there is. Like especially because I take—I’m an environmental science major—so there’s a lot of like, it’s—usually our classes are like half science, half non science people. And there’s definitely.. I don’t know.. not differences in people, but there’s, I guess there’s a feeling, there’s a very strong feeling of like ‘you’re a science person, and you’re not.’ [Rafia: really?] yeah. [others: yeah] Which sometimes can become like hierarchical, I think? Like sometimes it’s a little… snobbish. But I mean, but a little-in most part. You can just-you can just feel it sometimes and it’s not always a bad thing. Sometimes it’s bringing in different perspectives and that’s cool. But- But there definitely is I think like somewhat of a culture, I feel…
Mary: yeah, could you give an example? [Rafia: Yeah] Like when does that difference really come up? [BREANNE: Umm..] When does it become apparent to people?
BREANNE: Yeah, okay, so, I’m taking a class right now, it’s environmental-oh, I’m sorry-it’s sustainable agriculture; it’s a—an environmental science class. So it’s heavily science. But it’s.. offered.. as—you can take it without having that science background. But it’s a lot harder that way, I think, probably. Because we’re reading mostly like scientific articles.. with a lot of like research and hard numbers and things like that. Graphs. I mean, you’re interpreting a lot; it’s not just like reading out of a book. And so you definitely see, in class, certain students will be like, “well… you know, the standard deviation of this…blahblahblah… was really, uh…” [someone else laughs lightly], you know, they really go off [EMILY: “oh right”] and sometimes. This particular class, there’s only… one student who’s really science-oriented, and there’s quite a few of us who have a background of both, and then some that have none. And it’s very obvious who’s who, I guess. And so, I feel like the one student—and this may just be like the one student—but I’ve seen it in other classes as well—she feels like it’s very important to…play up he—
Clip 3
BREANNE: -er role as the scientist in that class [EMILY: “ohh”]. And so she’ll bring up points that the rest of us are just sitting there thinking ‘that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. Like, why are you bringing that up? Like, what do you want?’ and…so I guess there sort of is like a ‘Well, I just want to flaunt that I’m real smart about this.’ And so I don’t know it creates a weird dynamic sometimes where we’re all sitting there like,
EMILY: “ehhh”? [laughing]
BREANNE: Right…
EMILY: “Okay…”
[She and others laugh, extended]
BREANNE: … So.. I don’t know. I think it’s sort of unique to environmental studies. I don’t know, maybe not. A lot of times I can see it maybe in my psychology, maybe, too, or things like that. But you get some people who are really science-y and some people who really aren’t. And… uh, some in the middle, too. But I don’t know, it makes a really weird dynamic when people feel the need to express which—to be very like, definitive about which one they fit into, I guess.
ALISON: I think you can like feel… like.. some competitiveness in the classes.
BREANNE: Yeah, and I think that may come from science classes being a lot more competitive. At least the classes I’ve been in it seems like they’re a lot more competitive…
Rafia: Do you think that those same attitudes are kinda present in labs? and I wonder if it’s more.. evident in lab because [BREANNE: hmm]…they’re smaller? And it’s like
[ALISON mumbles: maaybe?] and you’re working with equipment?
ALISON: Well, I don’t know, like, in my experience I kinda work just closely with my lab partner. So I don’t know what’s going on with a lot of the other people in the class, so it’s pretty much between me and my like lab partner, so.
BREANNE: I would almost say it’s more the opposite because.. it’s a lot like.. of competition showing the professor how smart you are. [someone else laughs] And so the professor’s there then. And so you wanna ask them like, crazy, [someone: ohhh, yeah. (laughs)] question no one else would’ve thought of. So you’re trying to bring this unique perspective to this like two-hundred person class. Whereas in your lab, you’re more, that’s what your grade depends on. And so you’re more focused on, I need to do this, and [ALISON: yeah, you’re working] I have a short time period to do a lot of stuff. I don’t see the competition so much there. In the classes I’ve taken, I guess.
Mary: What do you think motivates people to.. want to show their professor that they’re smart..or have unique..
BREANNE: That’s a good question. [laughs]
ALISON: To help build connection, I guess. [BREANNE: yeah..] Or build a name, or some…thing like that, maybe.
BREANNE: yeah I wonder if it’s maybe like ‘cuz cer--a lot of professors offer like summer… you know, you can work with them on their research. Maybe that’s part of it? And those are really competitive, also. I mean, to try to get one of those positions. I don’t know.
Mary: Does everyone in the sciences want-
BREANNE: I don’t know… Everyone wants to be brilliant? [laughs; another person says laughing, “I don’t know..]
Mary: those kind of…
BREANNE: I mean, yeah, exactly. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just a culture…[overlaps with next line; someone else is saying “maybe curious, I don’t know?”]
EMILY: Maybe, maybe they’re just interested in it. And they wanna like bring it up and talk about it.
BREANNE: yeah. Maybe, maybe it’s just a different culture completely? You know? Oh,
well, not “completely,” sorry that sounds really like..dramatic, but you know what I mean...? ...maybe that’s just how science classrooms work more often than not…like a competition…like it kind of baffles me actually.
Mary: Is everyone interested in these summer opportunities that faculty members have, or is it people in certain areas of the sciences like with different orientations?
EMILY: I think it really depends on what you’re looking for in the summer; I think a lot of people find internships elsewhere. And then…if they feel like they have connections with a professor they’ll talk to them, or try to apply it…
BREANNE: Or if you are interested in their field of study. [Chatter]
Rafia: Just moving on to the individual experience you guys all had in Bio 150; were you able to attend class most of the time, did you guys complete the readings?
EMILY: I went to class almost all the time; I did most of the readings, probably not all the readings.
ALISON: I went to all the lectures for the most part, because it’s mandatory, like most class materials from the test are from the class.
[EMILY beings to overlap] : they said the book didn’t go with the class. You just kind of read the book if you needed more information. I went for the most part, I was taking Chemistry at the same time so I put it on the back burner a lot of the time because I was more focused on Chemistry than Bio. But I had a good experience overall.
KATHERINE: I think it was the opposite for me, I attended class most of the time or maybe all the time, I didn’t do all the reading, most of our test was on note taking just like their class.
Rafia: It seems like…was the book helpful?
KATHERINE: It was ok…
ALISON: It was ok, the internet was more useful…
EMILY :..just cause they didn’t pick the book that was right for the material
Clip 4
ALISON: Especially because I have a Campbell book, my dad bought it for me, it followed the lectures a lot closer than the actual Raven book we had to use. And so they said something about they switched textbooks because students complained it was too much reading, they wanted more pictures. So I don’t know if their lectures are from a different book…
KATHERINE: Our professor told us just to look at the diagrams and the pictures.
BREANNE: Yeah, Pay 150 bucks to look at pictures, seriously. [Chatter]
EMILY: At least you use it in 200 but then you have to buy two other books. They said you are going to use the same thing…plus two other books.. No, no.
Rafia: How was your relationship with the professors, did they know your name, know the names of most of the people in your class?
[General No]
ALISON: I was pretty distant with my professors, I guess. I had more of a relationship with my lab instructor.
EMILY: Yeah, sometimes if they came around in lab they might get to know you a little bit but usually not remember your name,
KATHERINE: I got a C on the first quiz so I went to see my professor after, so that’s how I know Professor Z, well Professor A I did, we had to do an independent project, I wrote a paper called ‘acclamation of plants’, or something. And I talked to [them] about editing my paper, so I guess they kind of know my name. I don’t think they would have known it if I didn’t ask for help all the time.
ALISON: I knew my chemistry professor quite well.
Mary: How about with lab instructors? [Chatter...yes] Was it usually you asking questions, or what kind of interactions did you have?
ALISON: It was rather interactive really back and forth like what’s this.
EMILY: Right, they were just there to talk to you, help you, show you stuff..
KATHERINE: Our lab was really close we used to have little parties and whatnot.
Rafia: Did your impressions of the class change over time? Was it what you expected?
ALISON: Well it started out really basic and simple and I didn’t have to study and then it really picked up and I had to study hard to keep up and absorb all the information.
Rafia: Is that how you guys feel also?
EMILY: yeah, I agree with that, it started out basic and then…
Rafia: When it did pick up and got harder, were you inclined to ask for help? Did you guys associate with different people in the class?
EMILY: I think it was mostly that there was more material to learn, so it wasn’t that you needed extra help and extra attention it was just that you had to study more.
ALISON: So I would e-mail my professors and ask questions if my notes were unclear… I guess I studied with some people outside class but for me it was more independent study, I think…
KATHERINE: Bio 150 taught me how to study. I’ve been transitioning from high school to college and I think its helpful how to study, how to get together in a group or alone or whatever.
Rafia: Was there anything else that really helped you learn how to study for college...more by yourself?
KATHERINE: I had a friend I used to study with and we used to teach each other back and forth. We still do that with Bio 200.
Rafia: I just want to tie this back to the culture of science at Mount Holyoke, because that is what we are trying to study…the snobby attitude in the sciences do you guys is it more like affirmed now that you’ve taken Bio 150? Just your feelings about…science at Mount Holyoke?
EMILY: I think some people just have higher standards and if they get a 94
Clip 5
EMILY: …They are going to be like “what happened to those six points”? And if someone gets an 87 they’ll be like “yes I passed”. It’s just a different mentality.
BREANNE: And maybe some more of that rides on, that their grades from their first year, they are already concerned with “oh my god med school”, maybe that’s where some of that’s coming from. It’s just that intensity because you know there is all this pressure and it’s your first semester, Jesus Christ …and even any other year it grows in intensity. I’ve taken a lot more of plant science and environmental science so I don’t really, it’s separate from the pre-med students. That has more of a culture to it. It’s not really a part of..
Rafia: Is there an obvious difference between those that are premed and those that are strictly bio majors?
Mary: Or research orientated? Some people thought it was more stressed? Or totally different preoccupations?
ALISON: I know of a particular group that’s premed and they are always talking about grad school, like what they missed on the last test, what one point they got off. You know? There’s always a buzz going on. But I don’t know, me, I’m more for the research and the actual science because I find it really interesting.
BREANNE: I could see there being some kind of a difference, I don’t think its apples and oranges, necessarily…the premed kids kind of hang together and the other kids kind of hang together but that’s a lot based on what classes you take. There are a lot of other variables I guess, it’s not so clear. Not everyone in science is a snob either, I don’t mean that. But the idea that you can feel it in a class room that from the very first week, I didn’t know some of the people in the class but from the first week you could tell who had taken what amount of science, I guess. That seems pretty definitive. Especially in a class where we hadn’t gotten to the science parts yet, not heavily anyway. That seems like a pretty obvious thing, I don’t know what it is though.
Mary: Do you think being in classes together; is the main thing that causes some people in the sciences to become friends or associating with other people? Or are there other places, science clubs, is it being in the same class that brings people together?
[Chatter…yeah]
BREANNE: And similar goals, you have that much more to talk about. Especially with premed because it’s such a big deal, cause it’s several classes and you have pretty much the same course load but you also have similar aspirations, similar struggles, you know what I mean, so it puts more emphasis on we’re in the same spot. And there’s probably some variation in that between the super stars and the people struggling to get by I’m sure there is some sort of thing there, too.
Rafia: Reflection on the course, is there something you guys would want to change about the class?
EMILY: The book.
KATHERINE: The drawings…but that’s just cause I don’t like them, but you have to do them.
BREANNE: I think still putting in different classes especially for non-science majors. Because non-science majors have a really hard time, I think especially from all my friends, none of my friends are science majors, and so they have all had a really hard time filling the requirement. Because they are like I don’t want to take that’s going to be really hard, or I don’t want to take Bio because it’s everyday of the week plus a lab, or whatever it is for whatever reason. Because those are all classes geared towards the next level. But it would be interesting to have classes that allow for you to move on but are more focused or more interesting in some way. Because like you were saying I mean it’s a lot of information but it’s not very deep, in any subject, really. It’s more like a taste of this a taste of that. Instead of here’s this subject, let’s go. And I think that could get more people.
ALISON: And you don’t want to kill someone’s interest, that could possible be there, you want to..
Clip 6
EMILY: There’s potential bio majors out there
ALISON: There’s different, other little classes out there, that you can take and just little classes, like a minor or something things so you don’t have to do like the big 200 like you know you can keep doing the little specific…
EMILY: and it’s nicer to have smaller class
ALISON: Exactly
EMILY: Oh, and another thing I might change is have the notes online so you can get the notes later because that way since it was mostly based on the notes
KATHERINE: It was ALL based on the notes.
EMILY: Yeah since it was all based on the notes, it would have been nice if they had it online and with links or notes or hints for review, stuff like that. I think it would make it easier to study and learn more, I think.
Rafia: I know that in bio, you dropped , there was an assignment…to write a paper you had mentioned …was there only one paper, how did you guys like that…having to write when the sciences are thought to just be labs or mathematical.
ALISON: It was really hard for me, it hit me at the end of the semester, when I was really stressed out with other classes.
EMILY: Right.
ALISON: I had kind of put it off till last minute. And I was trying to read the science journals. And I just got so overwhelmed, because I was trying to understand everything. And you’re like oh my god, I don’t even know what that word means. I really panicked because I had so much to do at the time and so I went and talked to my lab instructor and she’s like ‘Listen you don’t need to know all this, if you did you’d need to be at grad school , but you don’t have to worry about that, just get the basic idea down and just do it.’ And I was like ‘Uh Ok.’
EMILY: As long as you didn’t take it to seriously, it wasn’t so bad. Like you know what I mean. They weren’t asking for the next report that’s going to be posted on a science journal. They just wanted you to get involved in the sciences and get a feel for it.
Rafia: Did they take you guys to the library?
EMILY: Yeah
Rafia: And your class also ? Just reflecting on that corridor with Virginia Apgar and Clapp, do you know guys know which ‘Women in Science’ hallway I am talking about?
KATHERINE: The one that connects.
Rafia:…to the IC.
Mary: Do people ever talk about these past alums is that in the back do you have any sense of who they are..?
EMILY: Since the different buildings are named after some of them. They probably talk about that.
BREANNE: I never had a class that talked about it I think even among our friends, and my friends aren’t science majors, we’ve talked about it and the power behind that it’s importance, I guess.
EMILY: It’s like, our history.
Rafia: Do you …..
EMILY: It’s definitely talked about that Mary Lyon valued the sciences I think. I think people talk about that.
Rafia: Do you guys think that emphasis on those traditions and it’s like Mary Lyon was a chemist?
EMILY: Yeah people talk about that. I’ve heard that talked about a lot.
BREANNE: And I think that could be empowering, too. Knowing that you’re from this long line of Scientists…
EMILY: And it was a long time before women were allowed to be in the sciences.
BREANNE: It’s like you’re a part of something big, even though it’s not as big now, it’s still a big thing to be a woman scientist. It may not seem like it or whatever but it’s still a big deal having that behind you and knowing there have been great women before you, I think it’s really powerful and empowering. As trying on to go to the sciences especially when you’re at a women’s college.
ALISON: It’s interesting because on all the internship applications, they are like ‘List if you are a minority and they have women recognized as a minority in the sciences or something.
BREANNE: Women as a minority in science.
ALISON: It’s just really weird to see that because you’re surrounded by so many women scientists, so it’s like ‘Oh, well.. Really, I guess so.’
Rafia: The exhibit is going to take place in the fall, and it’s called ‘Women in Medicine.’ Do you guys know anything about it?
EMILY: No, I haven’t heard about it.
Rafia: I mean it highlights past alums form here and their contributions and it’s going to I think go around the 5 colleges. Does it all kind of impact.. that still make you proud, though you all aren’t premed…can you still connect to that exhibit…knowing a little bit about it?
Clip 7
KATHERINE: I’m thinking about being Pre-Med,
Rafia (to KATHERINE): Did Bio 150 play a deciding factor in that at all?
KATHERINE: Not so much Bio 150, but Bio 200. Bio 200 was much more focused, like on development. It’s how I knew I liked biology.
EMILY: We actually get to do really cool labs in Bio 200, like with the egg.
Rafia: If we can just talk about the lab instructors a little bit more and that personal relationship, is that the same in Bio 200…assuming you have all taken it?
ALISON: Yeah like my lab instructor this semester is actually a senior. Like at first I was a little nervous, like what if she doesn’t know much, but she’s really knowledgeable, and she does research here, and so she’s just a good resource to talk to and it’s almost easier to talk to a student rather than a lab instructor, so I ask her a lot more questions
EMILY: You think of her as more of a peer than an instructor,
Rafia (to BREANNE): Does that apply also to Environmental Studies?
BREANNE: I’ve actually never had a lab instructor. Most of my classes have been a lot smaller so they have just been taught by the professor, because they are not like the mainstream Bio 150 or Bio 200 that you have to take. But in those labs we’ve been really close to our professors, so at least we still joke around and still talk and hang out even though you’re not in their classes anymore. So that’s kind of cool, I guess.
Rafia: So it’s more of a laid back feel?
BREANNE: Yeah, and I don’t think that’s specific to Environmental Science, like even in my bio classes, when it’s a smaller group, which is neat, especially like. almost every single lab I’ve done at Mount Holyoke has been done outside and that has to do with the types of science I’ve taken, and that’s kind of a cool way…there’s definitely a lot of bio labs where they could have gone outside and done something in their smaller lab groups. I think it makes it a lot more effective and interesting as a learning tool, it’s more integrated I know it’s harder with bigger groups, but in your lab group it’s not as big.
EMILY: And it keeps your attention.
ALISON: Sitting inside in hot lab groups…ugh.
BREANNE: Yeah we did half outside and then you’d come back inside and analyze it, something like that.
Mary: What do find more appealing, or interesting, or helpful about going outside.
BREANNE: I guess it’s more real world application even if you walked outside and picked your plant leaf to look under the microscope to learn about plant cells that would be more effective than having this tray…a slide already prepared. You look at it and you’re like, “This is an onion cell”…
EMILY: Because you know where it came from.
BREANNE: Because it’s boring all you’re doing is looking at it and drawing a picture. But if you at least have some connection to it, it just makes more sense, I guess. I don’t know. And that you could take and you could take the plan and you can take the leaf and take a picture and look at that and you could take the stem and look at that, and compare different parts of the plant. There’s still plenty that you could do, it just takes more than looking in a lab book and being like which lab should we do this week. It seems like it’d be taking a step further, not that they don’t have enough to do.
ALISON: I think the small lab groups are nice because it makes the class smaller cuz it’s so big..
EMILY: And you can ask questions.
BREANNE: And get one-on-one.
EMILY: And they know you.
Rafia: Now in a big setting like Bio150, do you think there are many students who are afraid to ask questions, because they know that there are many students who have already taken AP Bio, etc.
EMILY: Sometimes I think it’s just because there is so much material and you’re like if I ask a question, will we have to stay 5 minutes later?
BREANNE: You don’t want to be that kid.
EMILY: Something sort of like that or like I have to go after this.
ALISON: And just that huge class, I’m a quiet person, I don’t like to raise my hand if there is 200 kids around.
EMILY: Or if it’s a question on something that everyone else might understand.
BREANNE: Especially if it was a misunderstanding or if you really don’t understand something they are talking about. I know my old roommate took it as a distribution requirement our first year and she had the hardest time. And I was like why don’t you just ask a question…like just ask. And she was like: ‘Yeah but there is so many people in the room and because there’s some of that
EMILY: Hoity-toity.
BREANNE: Snobbery, yeah, non-science people I think get really intimidated because they think the science are like ‘Ugh, don’t you know that…you should know that.’
EMILY: They don’t say that but…
Clip 8
EMILY: …But you can tell.
BREANNE: But you can tell. It’s a feeling in the room, like, you can tell and I think that, I don’t know, leaves a lot of people behind. Like she almost failed the class, and our other roommate at the time also, well, dropped the class because she was failing, and they both felt the same way about that. Yeah, and the one that dropped the class wanted to be a.. a..
EMILY: Bio major?
BREANNE: Pre-Med, yeah, but she like, couldn’t deal, and I guess it just didn’t work. I don’t know..
ALISON: That’s just back to like, the whole huge class, so much material, and really specific classes…
EMILY: And it’s just because it’s so much material, that’s mainly why you don’t ask questions. Like, if you don’t understand one thing, like you won’t get the rest of it, and if you ask questions, they might be answering your question right, but you might just not understand it because you didn’t get the other thing, or something like that, you know, maybe?
Rafia: Do you think it could also relate to the fact that they were only fifty minute lectures?
ALISON: Um… I couldn’t imagine that lecture any than 50 minutes.
[Group Laughter]
BREANNE: Well, it would be effective if they did longer lectures, but not every day of the week, maybe.
EMILY: Right.
ALISON: I guess it depends on how you work better. Like, for me, it work perfect for me, cuz, like, like in chemistry now it’s like a whole hour and a half and halfway through I just die and I’m like “I can’t be here any longer”.. But the fifty minutes is just like, just like a really short, and for me, personally for me, it’s just a better learning way.. But for other people it’s just better to go, like, every other day.
EMILY: Plus, like, it’s sort of like a review every day, you know? It goes back into your system every day so you remember it better probably, cuz you’re hearing it more times.
Rafia: How do you think, what do you think Bio 150 would be like if it was, like, capped at 25?
EMILY: I think it would be better.
BREANNE: They would have a lot of Bio 150 classes!
ALISON: That’s true!
EMILY: If it were capped at 25, well…
Rafia: Just in terms between the dynamics of the students…
BREANNE: I think a lot more students would succeed.
EMILY: Right! Definitely, so do I. [ALISON: Definitely.] A lot more of it, they would ask questions, the teacher wouldn’t be so overwhelmed. I mean if everyone asked questions everyday in that class, like, we woulda never got outta there!
Mary: So it sounds like after you’ve taken a lot of classes in any of the science departments you tend to become more and more specialized or you kind of focus more on particular areas, um… Do you find that or have you found that, you know, the first two classes like Bio 150 and 200 are important, like getting that really like.. Not the information but the range of information has that been helpful? I mean, do you think like starting out..
EMILY: They were related to each other?
Mary: What do you think science majors that started out in one of these first year seminars as opposed to one of the like, big survey classes?
BREANNE: I think that it could work.. I mean, like, for example, that “A Green World” class worked a prerequisite to every plant science lass for example… And it was also a prerequisite to Bio 200 still… And that’s kind of the cool thing too. Even if you just have them be different things but they are all prereqs to Bio 200… Then at least you’re in, then that’s fine, just so you can grab that original like, ‘okay it’s okay, like, I can do this, and it’s something I’m interested in, and that it’s not all these crazy different things I have no interest in, because, all I learned was their mechanisms and I know nothing about it. Like, I don’t know what this means; ATP, [Laughter] like nobody cares!’ Because it doesn’t apply, unless it’s something you’re very specifically interested in because you specifically wanted to Mount Holyoke because there are a couple of those people out there… But they are far and few between… And so, yeah, I think that even just making them even like, prereqs to Bio 200 or enough specific ones so you can go one of the specific routes in the Bio Department, like, they have like, there’s a lot of plat since, there’s a lot of human physiology, and then there is like, I dunno, maybe another branch. And so making like, one for each of those, or something, I guess.
ALISON: I think it also helps kind of guide you to a field, because I mean, it kind of sucks in one way, like, you have to take these certain Bio courses the first two years at least before you get to anything specialized, but then again it guides you in a path so you know what you are doing instead of feeling overwhelmed going ‘do I want to do this this this or this’ but by having the big broad classes you can be like ‘well, I really don’t like this but thank god because we’re moving on to this, and oh, this is really cool I like this.’ And I think it helps and like, it doesn’t help because sometimes I want to take a human anatomy class but I have to wait until, like, my junior year, senior year…
EMILY: I sort of… I also think that it’s not like, in the further on classes that like are later on, after the first one, just a couple intro classes, they are sort of self sufficient in their, like, in their amount of teaching and what they tell you… They don’t expect you to know
Clip 9
EMILY: ...It all down pat, like from the previous classes.
ALISON: Which is why the little specialized classes would work.
EMILY: You’re right. Sometimes they refer to general stuff but never are like, ‘oh remember this we’re gonna include it on the exam’, you know?
BREANNE: And I don’t know.. I.. shit, I forgot what I was going to say… …But I can see having like, Bio 200 and things like that; that’s necessary for the major. Clearly. But like, for myself, I was thinking in minoring in Bio but now I’m actually doing self designed so I’m taking actually up to 300 level bio classes, but like, I’ve never taken Bio 100 or 200. But it’s not necessary for the classes that I am doing so it open up a lot more of sciences for other Mount Holyoke women, I guess, if you don’t necessarily have to do that.. but for the major I think it’s terribly important, you know, the basics and stuff and how it’s important, you know, I don’t know, There are other ways people go about then like.. There are certain classes that I actually can’t take, because of that, the classes that I need to take for my major and things I can, but…
ALISON: How did you know you could get into the, um, like the 300 level classes. Like, did you have to beg your professor, or were they like ‘okay yeah, I understand’?
BREANNE: Well, I enrolled in Bio 150 and I also enrolled in ecology with Martha Hups, and she’s amazing, but yeah, I just went to her and was like, ‘I’m taking this class, do I need to be?” And we talked about it and because I took AP Bio she was like ‘Don’t worry about it, you’ll be fine’. And it actually like, or, just anyone with a science background at least, just like, knowing the scientific method and like and like, how to do a.. and stuff would probably be fine. Now I’ve taken that class and I’ve taken another class that cross references and now I’m taking another one of Martha’s 300 level class, cuz I guess yeah, the thing is, those classes all build on each other instead of like, from the bottom building up.
Rafia: In general, do you guys think that, I mean, for me personally, I totally felt like Bio 150 was a weeding out class. But that was because like, I had an interest, but like, it killed it.
[Group Laughter, a few “Aws”]
EMILY: Yeah.
Rafia: Do you guys fell like that, for all the non-science majors, talking about, alternatives as a possibility? But is there that sense, that it’s like, so big that..?
BREANNE: People call it that all the time. Especially for the kid who all come into it like ‘I wanna be a pre-med major!’ And a lot of people, I lot of people refer to it as that, whether it is or not.
EMILY: I never really thought of it that way though, [ALISON: yeah, me too!] I just saw it as ‘I’m gonna do Bio and that’s how I’m getting there’, yeah. Like whatever happens, I’ll survive.
ALISON: Yeah exactly. It didn’t really change my interest, I guess, it was just the next step up to the next level.
EMILY: One more thing I gotta do to get to where I wanna go.
ALISON: And I guess most my friends were from that chemistry class to so I guess I, didn’t know. I guess people were taking the class where it wasn’t there major, but I guess not a lot of people had the potential interest in bio and didn’t enjoy the class. I guess it, ah, I don’t know, I don’t know.
EMILY: I can see how it would be a total turn-off though. If you didn’t know how good bio was, like, otherwise, you’d probably be like, ‘ugh, all this memorization and stuff we’re like, not really doing like, in the lab or anything’, you know, because since it’s such a broad spectrum you don’t get to get interested in anything. You just go over it in the textbook and you are like ‘okay learn this and then you have a quiz next week and then we’re moving on to this’ it’s not like something where you can get an understanding of a specific thing.
Rafia: Katherine, you’re like, the only one here at least who is doing pre-med?
KATHERINE: Oh, okay. [Laughter] Thinking about it.
EMILY: We don’t want to scare you.
Rafia: Do you have any like, reflections on this, like, um, do you feel like there is a separate—I’m reiterating this question—like there is a separation in terms of like, not being research oriented?
KATHERINE: I guess a little bit, my close friends are all Pre-Med I guess. [BREANNE: Reinforce the stereotype, right..] But yeah, I guess it’s because we have all the same classes and we study together a lot but I don’t know I don’t really see Bio.. Well, I guess I had a friend who as an English major, she was in my religion class with me last semester but um.. She just hated Bio 150 and she hated how broad it was and how it wasn’t focused or whatever..
ALISON: Yeah I guess I can see how
Clip 10
ALISON: ...It wasn’t like, a big deal for me. I mean, it was really hard, but it was.. yeah.
Rafia: Um, Simone just came in and said I guess like, we’re going to start wrapping up in a couple minutes… So like, do you guys have any last thoughts or reflections..?
ALISON: When is the exhibit coming on again?
Rafia: Uh, the fall.
ALISON: Okay.
EMILY: Do you want to ask us anything else? Like, do you have any information that you’re still wondering about?
Rafia: Do you think we haven’t covered a certain aspect?
EMILY: Uh…
[Giggly, confused sounds]
EMILY: What else do you want to talk about? What are you hoping to get out of this information?
BREANNE: Is it, uh, is the exhibit specifically women in medicine and not women in science, right?
Rafia: Mm-hm, right.
BREANNE: That’s interesting because Mount Holyoke always puts such an emphasis on women in science, you know, like, medicine…? I wonder why.. I don’t know.
Mary: Well, It’s a traveling exhibit I think, I don’t think it’s Mount Holyoke that came up with this idea but it’s highlighting some of the people who are from Mount Holyoke, and it should show other women who contributed in medicine I’m pretty sure.
ALISON: Oooh, okay. That makes more sense. That’s cool, though.
BREANNE: And I don’t think we answered your question completely before about not being pre-med, if we still feel proud about it. I mean, I still feel proud, because it’s Mount Holyoke, but I would be really excited if it was women in science, you know..? I mean, I don’t know.. I still feel a part of that, I guess, even though my science isn’t even class to medicine, not really, Environmental health, but like, it’s all part of it. We all took the same, or a lot of the same, classes and ideas of classes even though they have changed through the years like, there’s still a heritage I guess. It’s pretty powerful.
Mary: This may seem like a pretty obvious question, but um, I mean, what do you really see as the difference between students who are pre-med and who aren’t, what’s the different between what you all are doing?
ALISON: It’s just a question of passion. If you want to do medicine, if you wanna be a doctor you do pre-med, but if you are really interested in how thing work or why things work you go into research or if you’re into the environment or..
BREANNE: It’s almost like how you look at it, because I mean, a lot of people, most of the classes at Mount Holyoke aren’t for people who are pre-med. It’s a lot of the basic stuff but not a lot of stuff you’re going to deal with. I mean, there is human physiology, and then there is like, maybe one or two other classes that relate to it, and I mean, of course there is one or two other classes that relate to it about cell structure but history and stuff like that it’s all very important to know that, but when you get to med school you’re actually going to be going to a school with medicine, and it’s very different. I think it’s a lot more like “We’re getting through this to get to something bigger,” like, whereas like, the plant physiologists are like, wow, this is interesting, this is exciting. I’m really excited to learn this in class, and maybe I’m going to go somewhere else but it’s not like a definitive spot or.. Does that make sense?
EMILY: Yeah!
ALISON: It’s almost more like, a means to and end, you know?
KATHERINE: I have to go to be somewhere else, I’m sorry. Bye.
Rafia, Mary: Thank you, thanks so much for coming.
Rafia: Thanks so much for coming you guys, and I just wanted to answer your question. We were really interested in seeing the culture of sciences.. if it really does play a part in the time where people do decide to declare their major in the sciences, or become premed, and take that cultural moment in Bio 150, and see like the rest of it, how your career at Mount Holyoke turned out.
Mary: Like if people in different areas of the sciences have really different perspectives on things or if, maybe, just really more generally if there really is this heritage of science at Mount Holyoke… Is it kind of felt or important or is it just a selling point for.. how involved, is it.
Simone: Okay guys, we’re done.
EMILY: Should we stop recording it?
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