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In Reply to: My abstract posted by R.S. on February 12, 2002 at 08:49:16:
: Main Point/Argument: Obedience to elders
: Respect for father, king, and God (natural hierarchy)
THIS IS DAZZLING, BUT HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS?
: Value of good heart and hard-work over intelligence
: Necessity of education, religious and moral teaching, and love of
: mother
: Importance of a secure and proper family with “natural mother”
: and “natural father”
: Importance of respecting one’s place/role within family structure
:
: Evidence: Edmond demonstrates utmost respect for teacher, parents, and employer
: Edmond refuses to drink with man who used him to break the king’s law
: Father praises Edmond over Edmond’s cousin who is more intelligent
: Edmond receives a strong education (influential teacher) – both secular and religious
: Anne Simon epitomizes the “natural mother” – full of morality and affection
: Pierre is perceived as the ideal husband and father – he is the final authority and
: does feel affection for his family, though does not express it often
:
:
: Most Interesting Thing: Church as a social setting – narrator explains that much of the
: courting takes place after services
: Apparent preference of son over three daughters – [sons as more important to family (daughters in law often valued over daughters), attempt from birth to ensure that girls were dependant (female babies were swaddled, males were not)
: Lack of privacy – role of village in individual’s life
: Possibility of overt sexuality – not agreed upon in articles ]
:
: Connections: Post-mass gatherings in this story reminds me of barn gatherings in the Bonnie Smith article, both were supervised and socially acceptable forms of courting – except for Edmond, whose strict father whipped him for flirting –[ strange that even a strict father would whip his son for flirting if sexuality were really as accepted as Poster claims][Good point]
: Edmond’s family is the model family – respected father, loving mother, dutiful daughters, hard working and educated son – all members of the Rétif family respect the proper hierarchy and all fulfill their obligations [What about Le Grand d’Aussy?]
:
:
: Promptings/Reflections: Importance of an acceptable a son-in-law – quasi-arranged marriage – children still regarded as a means to better family name, wealth, and stature
: Love not regarded as necessary, or even desirable, to establish a strong marriage – contrast between “l’amour-emotion” with “l’amour-passion” ; although, the Magistrate does permit his daughter to marry for love. [ “The crucial mechanism for the maintenance of patriarchy, was the control of marriage choices” – by controlling marriage, the father controlled the future of his family; regarded as a mission of “development” or “internal colonization” ] [Excellent point]
:
:
: Evaluation: An easy to read, very enjoyable story
: Clearly written to exalt Edmond as a model youth and young man
:
:
: Perplexing Thing: [Really? What about unquestioning obedience? What was the meaning of “love” at the time?]
:
:
: Key Terms/Vocabulary: Pierre Rétif – Edmond’s father
: Anne Simon – Edmond’s mother
: Berthier – Edmond’s teacher [add Nature and “natural”]
:
:
: Develop into Oral Presentation: Obedience to father as obedience to God
: Role of Church in lives of peasants
:
:
: Change in reading because of Charlton’s chapters:
: Book one of My Father’s Life illustrates well the points made by Charlton about the family structure and the roles of individuals within the family. Although the magistrate seems more liberal than the typical Frenchman described by Charlton (he allows his daughter to marry for love), M. Pombelins (and Pierre later) is more traditional, encouraging his daughter to marry the man he feels is appropriate. All three of the fathers in the story (the magistrate, M. Pombelins, and Pierre) fit the role of appropriate father and are the economic foundation of their families. In the same way, Anne Simon is as Charlton described – “subordinate to her husband as regards the ways of the world.” [What about the differences between Pierre and the others? Peasant vs. bourgeois?]
: The substantial description of the teacher makes more sense in the context of the importance placed on the children’s education in the era. In the book, the teacher, Berthier, is very highly praised – and regarded as responsible for the well-being, high moral standards, and prosperity of his community.
: For having read the Charlton chapters, my interpretation of the text has not changed, but my understanding of the context has been enhanced. [What about the difference between these interpretations: 1) Edme strove to emulate the ideals of Rousseau and others who created new ideals of family life; 2) Restif endowed his father with those ideas; he made it up; maybe not all but some.]
:
:
: Change in reading because of Poster’s chapter:
: Restif’s idealizations of his family – especially his father are more easily understood when recognized in historical context. He felt the emerging urban lifestyle was corrupt and encouraged a system of rigid patriarchy for managing a family (in this way the grandson, Resitf, has many of the same fears as his grandfather, Pierre) to maintain traditional values.
:
:
: Change in reading because of Le Roy Ladurie chapter: Clarified the role of wife and mother as, more than, principally reproducing – focused on food (which, in turn, necessitated having many children. Chapter discussed distribution of power within the community – enhanced my understanding of the village life (also discussed in Poster) – prevalence of attitude of distrust in the nobility (begins to explain Pierre’s mixed feelings about Edmond in Paris).
:
: [Be sure you understand how Poster and LRL differ on several issues concerning sexuality, the nature of peasant families, and so forth.]
:
: Molly: This is first rate in many ways. Your entries are nicely specific and succinct; you get to the point right away and state your ideas concretely, making them clear and accessible for the reader. The additional ideas from the articles and discussion are interesting on target.
: Main Point/Argument: Obedience to elders
: Respect for father, king, and God (natural hierarchy)
: Value of good heart and hard-work over intelligence
: Necessity of education, religious and moral teaching, and love of
: mother
: Importance of a secure and proper family with “natural mother”
: and “natural father”
: Importance of respecting one’s place/role within family structure
:
: Evidence: Edmond demonstrates utmost respect for teacher, parents, and employer
: Edmond refuses to drink with man who used him to break the king’s law
: Father praises Edmond over Edmond’s cousin who is more intelligent
: Edmond receives a strong education (influential teacher) – both secular and religious
: Anne Simon epitomizes the “natural mother” – full of morality and affection
: Pierre is perceived as the ideal husband and father – he is the final authority and
: does feel affection for his family, though does not express it often
:
:
: Most Interesting Thing: Church as a social setting – narrator explains that much of the
: courting takes place after services
: Apparent preference of son over three daughters – [sons as more important to family (daughters in law often valued over daughters), attempt from birth to ensure that girls were dependant (female babies were swaddled, males were not)
: Lack of privacy – role of village in individual’s life
: Possibility of overt sexuality – not agreed upon in articles ]
:
: Connections: Post-mass gatherings in this story reminds me of barn gatherings in the Bonnie Smith article, both were supervised and socially acceptable forms of courting – except for Edmond, whose strict father whipped him for flirting –[ strange that even a strict father would whip his son for flirting if sexuality were really as accepted as Poster claims][Good point]
: Edmond’s family is the model family – respected father, loving mother, dutiful daughters, hard working and educated son – all members of the Rétif family respect the proper hierarchy and all fulfill their obligations [What about Le Grand d’Aussy?]
:
:
: Promptings/Reflections: Importance of an acceptable a son-in-law – quasi-arranged marriage – children still regarded as a means to better family name, wealth, and stature
: Love not regarded as necessary, or even desirable, to establish a strong marriage – contrast between “l’amour-emotion” with “l’amour-passion” ; although, the Magistrate does permit his daughter to marry for love. [ “The crucial mechanism for the maintenance of patriarchy, was the control of marriage choices” – by controlling marriage, the father controlled the future of his family; regarded as a mission of “development” or “internal colonization” ] [Excellent point]
:
:
: Evaluation: An easy to read, very enjoyable story
: Clearly written to exalt Edmond as a model youth and young man
:
:
: Perplexing Thing: [Really? What about unquestioning obedience? What was the meaning of “love” at the time?]
:
:
: Key Terms/Vocabulary: Pierre Rétif – Edmond’s father
: Anne Simon – Edmond’s mother
: Berthier – Edmond’s teacher [add Nature and “natural”]
:
:
: Develop into Oral Presentation: Obedience to father as obedience to God
: Role of Church in lives of peasants
:
:
: Change in reading because of Charlton’s chapters:
: Book one of My Father’s Life illustrates well the points made by Charlton about the family structure and the roles of individuals within the family. Although the magistrate seems more liberal than the typical Frenchman described by Charlton (he allows his daughter to marry for love), M. Pombelins (and Pierre later) is more traditional, encouraging his daughter to marry the man he feels is appropriate. All three of the fathers in the story (the magistrate, M. Pombelins, and Pierre) fit the role of appropriate father and are the economic foundation of their families. In the same way, Anne Simon is as Charlton described – “subordinate to her husband as regards the ways of the world.” [What about the differences between Pierre and the others? Peasant vs. bourgeois?]
: The substantial description of the teacher makes more sense in the context of the importance placed on the children’s education in the era. In the book, the teacher, Berthier, is very highly praised – and regarded as responsible for the well-being, high moral standards, and prosperity of his community.
: For having read the Charlton chapters, my interpretation of the text has not changed, but my understanding of the context has been enhanced. [What about the difference between these interpretations: 1) Edme strove to emulate the ideals of Rousseau and others who created new ideals of family life; 2) Restif endowed his father with those ideas; he made it up; maybe not all but some.]
:
:
: Change in reading because of Poster’s chapter:
: Restif’s idealizations of his family – especially his father are more easily understood when recognized in historical context. He felt the emerging urban lifestyle was corrupt and encouraged a system of rigid patriarchy for managing a family (in this way the grandson, Resitf, has many of the same fears as his grandfather, Pierre) to maintain traditional values.
:
:
: Change in reading because of Le Roy Ladurie chapter: Clarified the role of wife and mother as, more than, principally reproducing – focused on food (which, in turn, necessitated having many children. Chapter discussed distribution of power within the community – enhanced my understanding of the village life (also discussed in Poster) – prevalence of attitude of distrust in the nobility (begins to explain Pierre’s mixed feelings about Edmond in Paris).
:
: [Be sure you understand how Poster and LRL differ on several issues concerning sexuality, the nature of peasant families, and so forth.]
:
: Molly: This is first rate in many ways. Your entries are nicely specific and succinct; you get to the point right away and state your ideas concretely, making them clear and accessible for the reader. The additional ideas from the articles and discussion are interesting on target.