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5th grade philosophical discussion #3

Posted by Allison, Liz, Siv on November 30, 2003 at 19:06:22:


Mr. G: Were Frog and Toad scared or brave?
Almost All: Scared.
Joe: But brave because they said, “I’m not afraid.”
Chris: They did say that, but they trembled.
Cas: If they were brave, they wouldn’t have run, they would have defended themselves.
Rose: They should have thrown rocks at the hawk.
Jasmine: They were brave because they said something.
Rose: They kept on climbing too.
Mr. G: Show me brave. Who’s brave? Do actors look brave?
Cas: It’s just your normal face. When you’re calm.
Chris: Mel Gibson in Braveheart was brave.
Jasmine: A knight.
James: Bruce in Evil Dead
Mr. G: How about what Cas said? Your normal face is brave?
Liam: I agree, like Rosa Parks knew she would get arrested.
Mel: Harriet Tubman.
Rose: Sojourner Truth, she ran away from slavery.
Cas: She fought unfairness. She thought there was no difference in color.
Mr. G: Do you have to look brave to be brave?
Almost All: No.
Mr. G: Do you have to do something dangerous to be brave?
James: No. Jumping off a building isn’t brave.
Chris: Brave is standing up for yourself.
Ms. Fink: I thought Liam was brave for bringing in his medical equipment, but what he did wasn’t dangerous.
Joe: Liam had to be brave, but cancer is dangerous. Going through something with professionals is different.
Cas: It was sort of brave. Some people wouldn’t have shared.
Mr. G: What about if someone dares you to do something? Like deliver a newspaper to a house with a mean dog?
Jasmine: If that’s not your job, then it’s stupid.
James: I agree. Stupid. I know dogs that kill.
Chris: But it’s dangerous so it’s still brave.
Liam: It’s not brave, it’s stupid. You just could get hurt.
Ms. Fink: If you do something that could mean you getting hurt, is that stupid? How about war?
Liam: There has to be good reason.
Mel: I would run fast.
Cas: The person who dared you could just be testing you or they could be trying to hurt you.
Chris: Wanting to dare somebody to see if it could be done isn’t always bad.
Jasmine: I agree, often fierce dogs are caged.
Mr. G: What about what Liam said about reasons? What’s a good reason? If I dared you to stick up for someone being made fun of, is that a good reason?
Almost All: Yes
James: It’s not brave if you did it on a dare, but is if you did it because you thought it was right.
Bes: I agree with James.
Jasmine: I agree with James. If you do it to be nice then it’s brave, but not on a dare.
James: What about when an angry mob says, “Burn the witch.”
Mr. G: Would it have been stupid if they had stayed with the snake?
James: Kind of, but it would have been brave if they had been saving someone.
Jasmine: Kind of no. The size of the snake matters. Some snakes are small.
Mr. G: So it would have been stupid and not brave. Dangerous but stupid. How about if you walk on a high wall without reason? If you refuse to? Is that brave or not?
James: It’s brave not to do it.
Rose: It’s brave to refuse a dare. They might think you’re chicken or scared.
Chris: It’s brave to refuse that opportunity.
Mr. G: Would it have been brave to stay with the snake or not?
Mel: Dumb, because they could have gotten bitten.
Chris: I disagree. How would it have not been brave to stay with the snake? They made a good choice.
Mr. G: Is running away brave?
Mel: They could have walked away.
Allison: Rose mentioned that Sojourner Truth ran away, from slavery, was that brave?
Rose: Owners might come after her. The snake might have come after them.
James: Did she come back?
Jasmine: I agree, but it was kind of stupid for them to go up there in the first place. Slaves were in the same situation. The animals could have just done something else, but the slaves had good reason.
Joe: Everybody can be brave in different ways. People can be brave on stage versus being brave facing a dragon.
Mr. G: You think there are different ways? Were Frog and Toad brave?
James: They weren’t brave, but they were smart.
Cas: I agree, but they weren’t brave because they couldn’t defend themselves.
Rose: They weren’t brave in the beginning because they were trying to be brave. Usually, you are brave without trying to be.
Liam: Everyone is brave just for getting up in the morning.
Chris: Walking on a cliff…I agree with Rose.
Mr. G: How do you know bravery? What is it?
Joe: Sometimes you can feel it and others know too, sometimes you can’t feel it but others know. There are lots of combinations. It’s like Liam said.
James: I agree with Joe. You’re brave without knowing it. Brave is doing something that’s right, not because you think it’s brave.
Mr. G: Can you be brave and scared?
James: Yeah.
Mr. G: How?
James: Fighting a dragon.
Oliver: It’s like that saying, “Courage isn’t the absence of fear, but the mastery of it.”
Jasmine: James had a good example.
Joe: Diving off a board you can be brave and scared.
Rose: Like Harry Potter was scared to get the stone, but he was brave too.
Mr. G: Were Frog and Toad stupid or brave to climb the mountain?
Mel: Brave.
Bes: Both.
Cas: Brave to climb and then they got scared so both.
Rose: Both.
Chris: Me too.
Oliver: Stupid because they had no reason to climb.
James: I agree. It was stupid to try to be brave without reason.
Mr. G: Why?
James: That’s confusing. You could be brave without knowing what you’re going to face. That’s like suicide.
Jasmine: It’s brave to go without knowing what’s there. But not if there’s a snake.
Cas: Both. Stupid. Like I was trying to say earlier. They climbed for no reason, then got scared.
Mr. G: Did they have reason?
Jasmine: They did have reason, it was weird. To see if they were brave.
Rose: Could you repeat the question?
Mr. G: Did Frog and Toad have reason?
Rose: They did, but not good reason.
Joe: They did have reason.
Liam: Not a good one.
Mr. G: What’s a good reason to climb?
Chris: If there’s a life in danger, or a fire.
Joe: A flood, you’d wanna be up high.
Jasmine: A hike.
Mr. G: We all agreed that Frog and Toad were stupid and brave. I mean, feel free to disagree with me.
Liam: I agree, emphasis on stupid.
Mr. G: But why were they brave?
Oliver: Because they got to the top.
Chris: They were both.
Rose: They were brave and stupid because they don’t know what’s gonna happen.
Jasmine: They were brave for going up and getting away from the snake.



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