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5th grade philosophical discussion #3

Posted by Allison, Liz, Siv on November 30, 2003 at 19:06:22:

Mr. G: Were Frog and Toad scared or brave?
Almost All: Scared.
Joe: But brave because they said, ďIím not afraid.Ē
Chris: They did say that, but they trembled.
Cas: If they were brave, they wouldnít have run, they would have defended themselves.
Rose: They should have thrown rocks at the hawk.
Jasmine: They were brave because they said something.
Rose: They kept on climbing too.
Mr. G: Show me brave. Whoís brave? Do actors look brave?
Cas: Itís just your normal face. When youíre calm.
Chris: Mel Gibson in Braveheart was brave.
Jasmine: A knight.
James: Bruce in Evil Dead
Mr. G: How about what Cas said? Your normal face is brave?
Liam: I agree, like Rosa Parks knew she would get arrested.
Mel: Harriet Tubman.
Rose: Sojourner Truth, she ran away from slavery.
Cas: She fought unfairness. She thought there was no difference in color.
Mr. G: Do you have to look brave to be brave?
Almost All: No.
Mr. G: Do you have to do something dangerous to be brave?
James: No. Jumping off a building isnít brave.
Chris: Brave is standing up for yourself.
Ms. Fink: I thought Liam was brave for bringing in his medical equipment, but what he did wasnít dangerous.
Joe: Liam had to be brave, but cancer is dangerous. Going through something with professionals is different.
Cas: It was sort of brave. Some people wouldnít have shared.
Mr. G: What about if someone dares you to do something? Like deliver a newspaper to a house with a mean dog?
Jasmine: If thatís not your job, then itís stupid.
James: I agree. Stupid. I know dogs that kill.
Chris: But itís dangerous so itís still brave.
Liam: Itís not brave, itís stupid. You just could get hurt.
Ms. Fink: If you do something that could mean you getting hurt, is that stupid? How about war?
Liam: There has to be good reason.
Mel: I would run fast.
Cas: The person who dared you could just be testing you or they could be trying to hurt you.
Chris: Wanting to dare somebody to see if it could be done isnít always bad.
Jasmine: I agree, often fierce dogs are caged.
Mr. G: What about what Liam said about reasons? Whatís a good reason? If I dared you to stick up for someone being made fun of, is that a good reason?
Almost All: Yes
James: Itís not brave if you did it on a dare, but is if you did it because you thought it was right.
Bes: I agree with James.
Jasmine: I agree with James. If you do it to be nice then itís brave, but not on a dare.
James: What about when an angry mob says, ďBurn the witch.Ē
Mr. G: Would it have been stupid if they had stayed with the snake?
James: Kind of, but it would have been brave if they had been saving someone.
Jasmine: Kind of no. The size of the snake matters. Some snakes are small.
Mr. G: So it would have been stupid and not brave. Dangerous but stupid. How about if you walk on a high wall without reason? If you refuse to? Is that brave or not?
James: Itís brave not to do it.
Rose: Itís brave to refuse a dare. They might think youíre chicken or scared.
Chris: Itís brave to refuse that opportunity.
Mr. G: Would it have been brave to stay with the snake or not?
Mel: Dumb, because they could have gotten bitten.
Chris: I disagree. How would it have not been brave to stay with the snake? They made a good choice.
Mr. G: Is running away brave?
Mel: They could have walked away.
Allison: Rose mentioned that Sojourner Truth ran away, from slavery, was that brave?
Rose: Owners might come after her. The snake might have come after them.
James: Did she come back?
Jasmine: I agree, but it was kind of stupid for them to go up there in the first place. Slaves were in the same situation. The animals could have just done something else, but the slaves had good reason.
Joe: Everybody can be brave in different ways. People can be brave on stage versus being brave facing a dragon.
Mr. G: You think there are different ways? Were Frog and Toad brave?
James: They werenít brave, but they were smart.
Cas: I agree, but they werenít brave because they couldnít defend themselves.
Rose: They werenít brave in the beginning because they were trying to be brave. Usually, you are brave without trying to be.
Liam: Everyone is brave just for getting up in the morning.
Chris: Walking on a cliffÖI agree with Rose.
Mr. G: How do you know bravery? What is it?
Joe: Sometimes you can feel it and others know too, sometimes you canít feel it but others know. There are lots of combinations. Itís like Liam said.
James: I agree with Joe. Youíre brave without knowing it. Brave is doing something thatís right, not because you think itís brave.
Mr. G: Can you be brave and scared?
James: Yeah.
Mr. G: How?
James: Fighting a dragon.
Oliver: Itís like that saying, ďCourage isnít the absence of fear, but the mastery of it.Ē
Jasmine: James had a good example.
Joe: Diving off a board you can be brave and scared.
Rose: Like Harry Potter was scared to get the stone, but he was brave too.
Mr. G: Were Frog and Toad stupid or brave to climb the mountain?
Mel: Brave.
Bes: Both.
Cas: Brave to climb and then they got scared so both.
Rose: Both.
Chris: Me too.
Oliver: Stupid because they had no reason to climb.
James: I agree. It was stupid to try to be brave without reason.
Mr. G: Why?
James: Thatís confusing. You could be brave without knowing what youíre going to face. Thatís like suicide.
Jasmine: Itís brave to go without knowing whatís there. But not if thereís a snake.
Cas: Both. Stupid. Like I was trying to say earlier. They climbed for no reason, then got scared.
Mr. G: Did they have reason?
Jasmine: They did have reason, it was weird. To see if they were brave.
Rose: Could you repeat the question?
Mr. G: Did Frog and Toad have reason?
Rose: They did, but not good reason.
Joe: They did have reason.
Liam: Not a good one.
Mr. G: Whatís a good reason to climb?
Chris: If thereís a life in danger, or a fire.
Joe: A flood, youíd wanna be up high.
Jasmine: A hike.
Mr. G: We all agreed that Frog and Toad were stupid and brave. I mean, feel free to disagree with me.
Liam: I agree, emphasis on stupid.
Mr. G: But why were they brave?
Oliver: Because they got to the top.
Chris: They were both.
Rose: They were brave and stupid because they donít know whatís gonna happen.
Jasmine: They were brave for going up and getting away from the snake.


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